Talk:Pete McGill
Christ, HT might as well have replaced his scenes with a like number of pages that read "INTERMISSION" in big bold letters at the center. I didn't even bother with the template because there's really just nothing there. Timeline, name, nationality, affiliation. (I don't like that one, by the way; it's way too vague.) And I notice that now that something's actually happening in northern China, albeit far to the north of McGill's previous position, he gets transferred even farther south, as if he had to evacuate because Beijing was still close enough to the action that he might have done something. Shanghai holds promise, though; it was a very exciting, turbulent place to be in the 30s, even compared with other decades in its own modern history. Actually it was much more exciting to observe from afar than it was to be right in the middle of the Japanese versus communists versus KMT versus warlords versus triads versus Westerners knock-down-drag-out brawl, but McGill could let us be the observers: "God this is so exciting. I'm just glad I'm not directly exposed to it; better him than me!" You know, looking back on it I'm not sure what led me to declare him a strong character despite his being squandered into uselessness. He's really little more than the latest in a long line of HT's stereotype of enlisted military personnel being universally hedonistic when they have nothing better to do, except that usually they do have something better to do, at least part of the time. Maybe I liked McGill because he introduced himself by rooting for the Yankees. Maybe because he's an American in Asia and I had just returned from that continent myself when I picked the book up. But he really is nothing special, is he? Actually, with the half-exception of Victor Radcliff, and maybe some I haven't read like Hasso Pemsel, HT doesn't seem to be able and/or willing to write truly compelling POVs anymore, either. Turtle Fan 21:16, September 11, 2009 (UTC) :A British or French MP, or similar Czech, Polish, Slovak, German, or Russian politician (nice of HT to mention in passing Chamberlain survived two confidence votes, how about have some actual suspense by showing us these votes), a British soldier a Gibraltar (some British McClellan whose poor decisions let the fascists win), a bureaucrat in the German war ministry worrying about the depletion of resources ("Hans, I won't tell you you're wrong. But who's gonna tell Der Fuhrer? God, these cigarettes suck.")--yes, these would have been more interesting than Sgt. McGill. TR 04:29, September 12, 2009 (UTC) ::Good point on the perspective of a political leader--Flora's scenes in most of SA showed that they're not necessarily the most exciting things in the world, but it is a rather glaring omission, isn't it? And the hell of it is, the military grunts who make up the rest of the cast spend more time talking about political leadership than military. Quick, name the commander of the German air forces during the blitz of Czechoslovakia. Hell, name the commander of the blitz of Czechoslovakia, or even of France. Without consulting historical sources, who's the commander-in-chief of all Spanish Republican forces? But who's the--uh, I guess we could say "head of the regime" for want of a real title--in Poland? Who's the head of state in Romania, which is more neutral than a helium atom? I don't remember offhand but I do know he's in there. :::Right, a politician or three wouldn't have been more interesting per se, but I think they might have resolved one or two issues I had with plausibility. Likewise, just saying "General So-and-So sure knows what he's doing" would have also resolved some plot issues. I suspect HT's thinking is that, when you get right down to it, a whole hell of a lot hasn't quite changed at the politicial or military levels. Which I guess I sort of agree with, but still, exploring those angles rather than a couple of Americans who can do nothing more than observe what every other character is going through just seems like a missed opportunity. ::::You know, when I saw that there were three American POVs I thought "So much for a non-America-centric, opposite-of-TL-191 story." But America doesn't even play a supporting role. Weinberg is more concerned with the Comintern than the US, and McGill and What's-Her-Name give no indication of their nation's position. McGill hints that the US finds Japanese expansionism excessive, but for God's sake, who wouldn't? And what civilized person could watch something like What's-Her-Name saw at the Jewish butcher shop and not find it the least bit distasteful? The deputy consul or whatever he was, the gay one, seemed to share her frustrations with the Nazis' intractability, so I guess that's a tiny little something but it gives no details. And the Germans fear provoking the Americans by sinking their civilian ships. Well, yes, firing on neutrals is generally to be discouraged, especially neutral great powers. ::::How gladly would I trade in the American POVs for the occasional aside that will give us a glimpse of the contours of American policy! "Goddammit, why are we always running so short on supplies?" "Roosevelt's trying to get us Lend-Lease aid but the isolationist senators are filibustering the appropriation." Turtle Fan 15:57, September 12, 2009 (UTC) :::Incidentally, Ion Antonescu of Romania. Not sure why he's in charge-he didn't take power until 1940 in OTL. TR 15:20, September 12, 2009 (UTC) ::::Ah, thanks. I feel so much more well-rounded now that I know that. Well he'd help us in the March to 1000. Turtle Fan 15:57, September 12, 2009 (UTC) ::I think I'm glad to have had McGill around because he was an intermission. I can't imagine why HT said "Let me take someone from a neutral country and stick him in a different country which is close enough to neutral from the story I'm telling, even the half-assed Asian part, and have him observe nothing." They're real scenes so you can't skip over them like you can over the word "INTERMISSION." Well eventually you realize that you could, contributing nothing as they do, but McGill was pretty much the only character who wasn't interchangeable with all the others. If you had the biographies of 100 soldiers serving in some army somewhere during the real WWII, if 99 of them were combatants or combat-support types in a conventional army for one of the major belligerents and the hundredth was the military attache to the Turkish embassy in Mexico City--Well he'd be the last one you wanted to read for useful information, but he'd be the first one you'd read if you were getting tired of all the repetition and overlap of the others. ::Now why HT couldn't provide that in a character who was relevant as well is a mystery. He had a few options: Sailors can be fun--I always liked Carsten--but submariners aren't. "Sunk a ship." "Sunk another one." "Uh-oh, depth charges. Let's dive deep where we'll gloss over twelve hours and resurface because the monotony of what we're doing while we're submerged would make for a duller narrative still." Then there are the two civilians, the two women. (I guess Weinberg is technically a civilian, as Cincy was in TG and IatD, but--really, come on now.) The American one could have been so much more than she wound up being. HT's spy POVs aren't necessarily glamorous, but they have far more potential to be interesting than the successive thwartings of a long line of nearly-identical escape attempts. The Jewish girl I had high hopes for: she's just about the only one who seems to be going anywhere or undergoing character changes beyond the superficial. But while acclimating to life in totalitarianism can make for good narrative, I don't think she's the best one to tell her story. The father, who has both a personal and intellectual stake in the matter, would be a better POV. On the other hand, I'm part of a rather small minority who found the epic tale of Ealstan and Vanai consistently compelling, but I don't see this girl recreating anything like that. ::Yeah, HT's assignment of POVs in this one sucked ass. MwIH, too: How about, for instance, a German partisan of the federal republic who lived in fear of the GFF and was left high and dry at the end? POV replacements, and the roles into which existing ones were forced, in the SA books has already been heavily criticized. But until a few years ago it was something he did well. The cast of Worldwar was so diverse that you really did feel like you were getting the whole story, even though you got fairly regular remarks to the effect of "Oh shit, that's right, something's got to happen in India too." Derlavai and pre-SA TL-191 weren't quite as good at it--though I'd say HFR was--but what they did to was three-dimensional. And the characters were differentiated enough that you could care about them and learn about them, instead of letting them all run together. Notice just how low a priority for writing POVs for both MwIH and HW has been. For me, I couldn't keep 'em straight--The Czech soldier's experience in France after the invasion was so close to the British sergeant's and the German tanker's that I couldn't begin to sort out the details of who did exactly what. Turtle Fan 06:17, September 12, 2009 (UTC)